We have seen people going to temples or churches or Masjids etc and pray God (with different names). Every one has a logic, but most say, we do so because we are created by God as his slaves and we can get his mercy if and only if we worship him. Some people believe that one can get such mercy if and only if he accepts the nature of God as mentioned in a particular book, accepts the book to be divine, and accept the author of the Book to be son or last messenger of God.
When I listen these things, some questions raise in my mind,
1. My parents never punish me if I don't worship them, if God will punish me for not worshiping him, how he is merciful ?
2. Why God need a slave at all ?
3. If I am not born in a family and at a place where the specific book is not popular, and I am taught some different features of God, whose fault is this ? Is not God did this with me ? For his faults why he will born me in hell fire ?
4. If he already knows my future and my actions, it means he has made me like this, again for his game, I am punished, is it justice ? How can we say God to be the best then ?
For these questions I feel God may be like the worst kings, who punish their citizens not for immorality but for they expect justice from the kings.
When I read Vedas, it says a complete different theory in this regards. I had discussion on this topic in different pages, I am quoting my view.
Discussion with Musmulan Mumin
1. Vedic philosophy does not divide people as believers and non believers. Vedas says who ever develops the character of humbleness will be in the state of heaven, and others will be in the state of hell. However, untill one reaches the God, God gives chances after chances to rectify the mistakes.. Life is a chance, an opportunity to find path to him.
2. Veda says, those who believe in god, but dont do good, will not get bliss, but those who do good will get so, even if they dont accept god. At the end of life those will get god who are good. Believing or not believing is not deciding factor for the life after death of this life. This present life is just another stage of the journey that we have started. From the God to the God. There is no difference at all between we and God, we are made of similar physical and spirituality. We are separated from God because of the qualities of our soul. Make it pure, and you will be part of God again.
3. There is no doubt that God is the one and only one with out a second. Hence all ways of prayer goes to God. So dividing people as believers and nonbelievers is a sin. Please be aware, creating any such division will make you suffer more on earth. It does not effect whether you are a believer or not, one will suffer pain. There are two reasons for such suffering. 1. God teaches us the meaning of pain, that time we get pain for a shorter time, and get happiness soon after it. This is his style of teaching. 2. As a result of our deeds, this pain never ends, it continues till death. This is the stage of hell. Those who are good, remain in the stage of heaven.
4. God has not created us to be his slaves or to worship him. He is the greatest, all doer, why at all he will need a servent ? Vedic view can be explained with the example of sea and water.
5. Suppose God is the sea, we were waters in it. We reacted with the sun rays, because of our character, and formed part of cloud, thinking it is better. But later we observed we have departed from God, and we started process to rich god again.Hence first we fell down on earth like rain (our birth), some formed part of sea directly (being very noble and without sin), some formed part of different rivers, some big some small (may be our economic conditions or intellect level, again based on the nobility within us), some fell on barren lands and merged in the earth (based on nobility).Then we started movement towards reaching God as masses (may be different customs), as every one aims at reaching God. As we progressed, some again reacted to sun and formed cloud and came back to earth as rain, the process continues. Some able to rich the God with the flow of river masses.So ultimate target is reaching and being part of God. In between we may be in heaven or hell depending on our deeds.
6. So Einstein, who was not a Hindu, who did good must have been to heaven first, then based on his further actions he may have been part of God, who knows ?Hitler must have been to hell, and must have been come back to earth with the rain fall, now how he could have rectified his mistakes, who knows ?
7. As I said, we reacted with the sun rays, it means we raised a desire in us, that created an attachment. As soon as we can remove the attachment, we will merge with God. By doing good, one will go to heaven, by doing bad one will go to hell, but these are not permanent. Soon the souls will be sent on earths (this is not the only earth, there are many), they have to live a life again, untill they can remove all attachment.
8. Regarding God, according to Veda, God is every thing, every matter, every force, every energy... Hence he is the entire universe himself. No external force created the Universe, he himself expanded himself like this. This is a continuous process, a decimal like point with dark inside, explodes with a sound (rishis said it was Om), then he expands himself, with this expansion, the space, the sky, the water, the fire, the earth forms, from his body parts all devatas are formed (devatas are the limbs of God can be said), and when we see this such of beautiful universe, a desire takes birth in us, and we get departed from God.As God is ever matter, every atom and every molecule, he is omnipresent, as he is all energy, all force, he is alldoer or omnipotent, as he is the knowledge, he is omniscient, As he is the herbs, the plants, the stars, the sun, the fire.. he is most Beneficent, as he never punished us inspite of being departed from him, he is the most Merciful.We are not his slaves, and not made to worship him, so Veda advocates for self-realisation.
9. We have to perform, the performance is known as Karma, that karma has to be done in accordance with ethics i.e Dharma. If one performs unethically, he will be sent to hell, others will life heavenly life. But Only karma is not sufficient, self realisation is also important, with which we will fall dierectly in the sea (mokshya), and we wont need to be part of river again. But only self realisation is not going to help. Performance is also important.
10. Hence Veda classified our life span into four parts, 1. Childhood - during this age we acquire knowledge (around the earth, even though people are not aware of Veda), 2. Adult life for performing karma and to choose a profession based on the level of intellect and the knowledge acquired by us (around the earth people do so, even without knowledge of Veda), later stage to help next generations with our experience and the final stage is to spend time for self realisation.But people dont do the fourth part perfectly, hence can not get salvation.
11. Bhagvan Budha, Bhagavan jain, Bhagavan krishna openly said, one need not need Veda,all these three spent their life for teaching others the real aim of our soul, they were the most noblest, hence they must have reached salvation, even though they were against vedic teaching, even though thay did not accept name of God being Allah, even though they did not accept Mohammed being the last prophet, even though they did not believe in angels, the book.The great scientists, doctors, artists, social workers (who are not partial, and without selfishness) must have been to heaven after their life, but surely has been back to earth to perform and attain salvation.
Discussion Karan Bisht
Q.1 Who wrote vedas?
Ans. No body has its answer. If we take the spiritual view, no body. If we take scientific view, may be many rishis who did not show their identity.One thing to understand that, Vedas were in oral form for thousands of years, it may be in written form by hardly for 8 to 10 thousand years.Tradition says that the VEDAS were first revealed in heart of 4 Rishis or seers during inception of the civilization. These were having the best traits as per previous Karma or actions, and most eligible to understand the expain this knowledge. The knowledge of VEDAS revealed from them in a manner similar to way inspiration for doing noble things emerge in hearts of noble men.Traditions say that Agni received Rig Veda, Vayu – Yajur Veda, Aditya – Sama Veda and Angira – Atharva Veda. Then these 4 Rishis trained other people on basis of these Vedas.
The scholars among these other people contemplated on specific mantras of Vedas and were called Rishis because they researched into meanings of these Mantras which were useful for entire humanity then. Civilization and knowledge flourished henceforth.
Q.2. is it true idol and natural elements worship banned or prohibited in vedas?
Ans. Well, many say so, they have their own logic, but I dont think so, I have my own logic. Veda clearly says, He has no image, no idol worship is a vague. So, when some one says Idol worship is not allowed under Vedas, he is right. But I say, we dont worship God by idols, these are Devtas, like Krishna, Ram, Navagrah, Ganesh, Saraswati... These are not God. So, there is nothing wrong in worshipping theem. But one thing is clear, by worshiping devats, one can get health, wealth, but not peace and moksha. To get mokhsh, there is only one way, sit quite, close ur eyes, and meditate. This is the way to pray God, not Devtas.
Q.3. What u sying!! Then who is god,,? ,, krishna and rama are the avtaar of lord vishnu,, , then who is bharma vishnu mahesh thy are also devtas,,
Ans. Yes, vishnu, rudra, brahma, indra these all are devatasFirst understand who is God of veda, the entire universe is his gigantic physical body. No body can go beyond him. Though he is the entire universe, every atom is part of his body, we all are part of him.As there is a soul, there is supreme soul. In fact when I say the word 'i', it is for the soul. I am the soul, not the body.In this way, all devatas part of him. As when I say I picked a ball, its in fact my hand did, nt the entire body, although controlled by the brain.Similarly, all activities are done by the god, but by his body parts, by devatas.When some thing is to be created, it is done by brahma, when some is to be destroyed, it is done by rudra.
Q.4. then why we worshipng its body part we should directly worship god ?
Ans. If some one believes he is worshiping a devta, then its wrong. In fact we praise devta for their deeds, and urge them to help us in times of need. This is what every one do,Vedas go a step ahead, and say, remove the space between you and God.As I said earlier, god is every atom, our body is part of him too, so our soul is too. We are separated from him by a space, just like some one has kept sea water in a bowl, although, the water in the bowl is the same sea water, there is a space. We have to break that bowl and merge into the sea. This bowl is made of our karma. Veda says perform. There are two ways. One to gain knowledge, second to perform duties.Hence, veda divides our life span in four parts. In childhood get knowledge, in adult perform, later stage teach what u learned. Then try to self realisation.
Karma must be in accordance with dharma. Dharma says, 'do, what if others do for u, u ll be happy, and dont do, what if others do, u ll be hurt.'Paropkarah puryaya, papaya parapidanam.Summary is, praise devatas, give them strength by yagnya and havans. Get knowledge, perform duties, and do meditation to attain self realisation.Some says, nt to indulge in praising devatas. They are correct on their logic. But I believe, when we praise devatas, we are knowing god better, so nothing wrong.
Q.5. bt if i do only meditation, dn't believe in devtas, idol etc, then is it the correct way of worshipng ?
Ans. If you dont believe sun rises in the east, then its ur ignorance, nt truth. Hence, devatas are truth, whether you believe or not. But yes, you can skip praising them, and do meditation for self realisation. But only meditaion is not going to help. You have to perform your duties in accordance with ethics. The moment you will be able to put your mind at a state without any attachment for worldly objects, you will attain self realisation. This can nt be done only with meditation.For this meditation as well as performance both required. Even god is performing, each second a change ocurs.. So how can we attain the highest state without performing ?And remember, worship is only for devatas, not god. Dont worship, dont praise any devata, dnt even bow down before any idol, but dont stop meditation. Start with atleast a minute a day. It is a great experience.God has nt created to worship him, we are departed frm him for our karma. And by doing good, we will be able to merge with him. This is mokshya.
When I listen these things, some questions raise in my mind,
1. My parents never punish me if I don't worship them, if God will punish me for not worshiping him, how he is merciful ?
2. Why God need a slave at all ?
3. If I am not born in a family and at a place where the specific book is not popular, and I am taught some different features of God, whose fault is this ? Is not God did this with me ? For his faults why he will born me in hell fire ?
4. If he already knows my future and my actions, it means he has made me like this, again for his game, I am punished, is it justice ? How can we say God to be the best then ?
For these questions I feel God may be like the worst kings, who punish their citizens not for immorality but for they expect justice from the kings.
When I read Vedas, it says a complete different theory in this regards. I had discussion on this topic in different pages, I am quoting my view.
Discussion with Musmulan Mumin
1. Vedic philosophy does not divide people as believers and non believers. Vedas says who ever develops the character of humbleness will be in the state of heaven, and others will be in the state of hell. However, untill one reaches the God, God gives chances after chances to rectify the mistakes.. Life is a chance, an opportunity to find path to him.
2. Veda says, those who believe in god, but dont do good, will not get bliss, but those who do good will get so, even if they dont accept god. At the end of life those will get god who are good. Believing or not believing is not deciding factor for the life after death of this life. This present life is just another stage of the journey that we have started. From the God to the God. There is no difference at all between we and God, we are made of similar physical and spirituality. We are separated from God because of the qualities of our soul. Make it pure, and you will be part of God again.
3. There is no doubt that God is the one and only one with out a second. Hence all ways of prayer goes to God. So dividing people as believers and nonbelievers is a sin. Please be aware, creating any such division will make you suffer more on earth. It does not effect whether you are a believer or not, one will suffer pain. There are two reasons for such suffering. 1. God teaches us the meaning of pain, that time we get pain for a shorter time, and get happiness soon after it. This is his style of teaching. 2. As a result of our deeds, this pain never ends, it continues till death. This is the stage of hell. Those who are good, remain in the stage of heaven.
4. God has not created us to be his slaves or to worship him. He is the greatest, all doer, why at all he will need a servent ? Vedic view can be explained with the example of sea and water.
5. Suppose God is the sea, we were waters in it. We reacted with the sun rays, because of our character, and formed part of cloud, thinking it is better. But later we observed we have departed from God, and we started process to rich god again.Hence first we fell down on earth like rain (our birth), some formed part of sea directly (being very noble and without sin), some formed part of different rivers, some big some small (may be our economic conditions or intellect level, again based on the nobility within us), some fell on barren lands and merged in the earth (based on nobility).Then we started movement towards reaching God as masses (may be different customs), as every one aims at reaching God. As we progressed, some again reacted to sun and formed cloud and came back to earth as rain, the process continues. Some able to rich the God with the flow of river masses.So ultimate target is reaching and being part of God. In between we may be in heaven or hell depending on our deeds.
6. So Einstein, who was not a Hindu, who did good must have been to heaven first, then based on his further actions he may have been part of God, who knows ?Hitler must have been to hell, and must have been come back to earth with the rain fall, now how he could have rectified his mistakes, who knows ?
7. As I said, we reacted with the sun rays, it means we raised a desire in us, that created an attachment. As soon as we can remove the attachment, we will merge with God. By doing good, one will go to heaven, by doing bad one will go to hell, but these are not permanent. Soon the souls will be sent on earths (this is not the only earth, there are many), they have to live a life again, untill they can remove all attachment.
8. Regarding God, according to Veda, God is every thing, every matter, every force, every energy... Hence he is the entire universe himself. No external force created the Universe, he himself expanded himself like this. This is a continuous process, a decimal like point with dark inside, explodes with a sound (rishis said it was Om), then he expands himself, with this expansion, the space, the sky, the water, the fire, the earth forms, from his body parts all devatas are formed (devatas are the limbs of God can be said), and when we see this such of beautiful universe, a desire takes birth in us, and we get departed from God.As God is ever matter, every atom and every molecule, he is omnipresent, as he is all energy, all force, he is alldoer or omnipotent, as he is the knowledge, he is omniscient, As he is the herbs, the plants, the stars, the sun, the fire.. he is most Beneficent, as he never punished us inspite of being departed from him, he is the most Merciful.We are not his slaves, and not made to worship him, so Veda advocates for self-realisation.
9. We have to perform, the performance is known as Karma, that karma has to be done in accordance with ethics i.e Dharma. If one performs unethically, he will be sent to hell, others will life heavenly life. But Only karma is not sufficient, self realisation is also important, with which we will fall dierectly in the sea (mokshya), and we wont need to be part of river again. But only self realisation is not going to help. Performance is also important.
10. Hence Veda classified our life span into four parts, 1. Childhood - during this age we acquire knowledge (around the earth, even though people are not aware of Veda), 2. Adult life for performing karma and to choose a profession based on the level of intellect and the knowledge acquired by us (around the earth people do so, even without knowledge of Veda), later stage to help next generations with our experience and the final stage is to spend time for self realisation.But people dont do the fourth part perfectly, hence can not get salvation.
11. Bhagvan Budha, Bhagavan jain, Bhagavan krishna openly said, one need not need Veda,all these three spent their life for teaching others the real aim of our soul, they were the most noblest, hence they must have reached salvation, even though they were against vedic teaching, even though thay did not accept name of God being Allah, even though they did not accept Mohammed being the last prophet, even though they did not believe in angels, the book.The great scientists, doctors, artists, social workers (who are not partial, and without selfishness) must have been to heaven after their life, but surely has been back to earth to perform and attain salvation.
Discussion Karan Bisht
Q.1 Who wrote vedas?
Ans. No body has its answer. If we take the spiritual view, no body. If we take scientific view, may be many rishis who did not show their identity.One thing to understand that, Vedas were in oral form for thousands of years, it may be in written form by hardly for 8 to 10 thousand years.Tradition says that the VEDAS were first revealed in heart of 4 Rishis or seers during inception of the civilization. These were having the best traits as per previous Karma or actions, and most eligible to understand the expain this knowledge. The knowledge of VEDAS revealed from them in a manner similar to way inspiration for doing noble things emerge in hearts of noble men.Traditions say that Agni received Rig Veda, Vayu – Yajur Veda, Aditya – Sama Veda and Angira – Atharva Veda. Then these 4 Rishis trained other people on basis of these Vedas.
The scholars among these other people contemplated on specific mantras of Vedas and were called Rishis because they researched into meanings of these Mantras which were useful for entire humanity then. Civilization and knowledge flourished henceforth.
Q.2. is it true idol and natural elements worship banned or prohibited in vedas?
Ans. Well, many say so, they have their own logic, but I dont think so, I have my own logic. Veda clearly says, He has no image, no idol worship is a vague. So, when some one says Idol worship is not allowed under Vedas, he is right. But I say, we dont worship God by idols, these are Devtas, like Krishna, Ram, Navagrah, Ganesh, Saraswati... These are not God. So, there is nothing wrong in worshipping theem. But one thing is clear, by worshiping devats, one can get health, wealth, but not peace and moksha. To get mokhsh, there is only one way, sit quite, close ur eyes, and meditate. This is the way to pray God, not Devtas.
Q.3. What u sying!! Then who is god,,? ,, krishna and rama are the avtaar of lord vishnu,, , then who is bharma vishnu mahesh thy are also devtas,,
Ans. Yes, vishnu, rudra, brahma, indra these all are devatasFirst understand who is God of veda, the entire universe is his gigantic physical body. No body can go beyond him. Though he is the entire universe, every atom is part of his body, we all are part of him.As there is a soul, there is supreme soul. In fact when I say the word 'i', it is for the soul. I am the soul, not the body.In this way, all devatas part of him. As when I say I picked a ball, its in fact my hand did, nt the entire body, although controlled by the brain.Similarly, all activities are done by the god, but by his body parts, by devatas.When some thing is to be created, it is done by brahma, when some is to be destroyed, it is done by rudra.
Q.4. then why we worshipng its body part we should directly worship god ?
Ans. If some one believes he is worshiping a devta, then its wrong. In fact we praise devta for their deeds, and urge them to help us in times of need. This is what every one do,Vedas go a step ahead, and say, remove the space between you and God.As I said earlier, god is every atom, our body is part of him too, so our soul is too. We are separated from him by a space, just like some one has kept sea water in a bowl, although, the water in the bowl is the same sea water, there is a space. We have to break that bowl and merge into the sea. This bowl is made of our karma. Veda says perform. There are two ways. One to gain knowledge, second to perform duties.Hence, veda divides our life span in four parts. In childhood get knowledge, in adult perform, later stage teach what u learned. Then try to self realisation.
Karma must be in accordance with dharma. Dharma says, 'do, what if others do for u, u ll be happy, and dont do, what if others do, u ll be hurt.'Paropkarah puryaya, papaya parapidanam.Summary is, praise devatas, give them strength by yagnya and havans. Get knowledge, perform duties, and do meditation to attain self realisation.Some says, nt to indulge in praising devatas. They are correct on their logic. But I believe, when we praise devatas, we are knowing god better, so nothing wrong.
Q.5. bt if i do only meditation, dn't believe in devtas, idol etc, then is it the correct way of worshipng ?
Ans. If you dont believe sun rises in the east, then its ur ignorance, nt truth. Hence, devatas are truth, whether you believe or not. But yes, you can skip praising them, and do meditation for self realisation. But only meditaion is not going to help. You have to perform your duties in accordance with ethics. The moment you will be able to put your mind at a state without any attachment for worldly objects, you will attain self realisation. This can nt be done only with meditation.For this meditation as well as performance both required. Even god is performing, each second a change ocurs.. So how can we attain the highest state without performing ?And remember, worship is only for devatas, not god. Dont worship, dont praise any devata, dnt even bow down before any idol, but dont stop meditation. Start with atleast a minute a day. It is a great experience.God has nt created to worship him, we are departed frm him for our karma. And by doing good, we will be able to merge with him. This is mokshya.
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